From Law Student to Tech Consultant at ServiceNow

[00:00:00] So I kind of went over, I spoke to the recruiter and it was just like literally one conversation can change your life because she was literally like your blend of soft skills and technical knowledge sounds perfect for a role we have called a solutions consultant. And at that time it was like, what is that? Never heard of that. Have no idea what that is kind of thing. But she kind of explained the role and it did make sense.

[00:00:21] Today's guest is Amma. Amma is a solutions consultant at ServiceNow. Today Amma tells her incredible story of how she broke into tech coming from a law background. Her story is truly inspiring and I can't wait for you guys to see this. In this video you will learn exactly what ServiceNow is and how it is used in various environments in the tech industry.

[00:00:47] You will learn about Amma's incredible story and the techniques she used to break into tech with no tech background. And you will also hear Amma's incredible advice on how someone else can transition from a non-tech background into the tech industry.

[00:01:04] But before we get into it, there's one thing that I have to ask you guys. At the time of this recording, the channel is on 17,000 subscribers and I know it's going to be more when this releases.

[00:01:14] The more growth and subscribers we have, the more we're able to bring on incredible guests to this podcast.

[00:01:21] So by hitting that like and subscribe button, you're really helping the podcast to grow and bring more and more incredible guests to join me and share their experience, advice and insight on this channel.

[00:01:33] Each subscription, like and comment goes a long way.

[00:01:37] Now let's get right into this episode.

[00:01:45] For the audience, Amma and I kind of connected through the event Black Tech Fest where you did a talk.

[00:01:52] I did a talk on stage and it was for how to start my career in technology.

[00:01:57] And I was on a panel with one of Caleb's previous guests on here, Viola.

[00:02:03] Really lovely.

[00:02:04] And we spoke about how we got into tech, maybe like some of our challenges as well, what we faced and everything, all of that good stuff.

[00:02:15] So yeah.

[00:02:16] Amazing.

[00:02:16] Amazing.

[00:02:17] Really cool.

[00:02:19] And for one reason or the other, I wasn't able to like attend the talk, but I was still able to connect on LinkedIn and get you onto the podcast to share that with our audience, which is amazing.

[00:02:30] So to start off, I'll just ask that you tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey in tech, because looking at your LinkedIn profile,

[00:02:40] I kind of discovered that you went from law, studying law to getting into tech, which was super interesting.

[00:02:48] There are so many people that like are part of this audience that watch and they're really focused on like transitioning because they're in some other industry and they're trying to go from that industry to the tech industry.

[00:03:02] So your story is really interesting to them.

[00:03:06] So just give us a walkthrough of that story.

[00:03:10] Okay.

[00:03:11] So initially I was really like headset on becoming a lawyer.

[00:03:16] I wanted to do law.

[00:03:18] That was my thing.

[00:03:19] So I studied that at university.

[00:03:22] I did a few placements.

[00:03:24] So for example, I did a placement at the Civil Aviation Authority, which is quite interesting because you got to see how law works with the airplanes.

[00:03:31] I did different placements within family law firms, within criminal and a few in commercial.

[00:03:38] And in doing all of these things, I kind of found that the theory of law was a lot more interesting to me than the actual practicality of doing the job, which is quite sad.

[00:03:50] So I carried on running with it just solely because of the fact that I'd done it for three years and it made sense to do it.

[00:03:57] So I started my LPC and I had an offer from a firm and they were prepared to kind of train me up and obviously give me that certified qualification as a solicitor.

[00:04:09] However, at the same point in holding that offer, I had an offer from a huge law firm and they were doing kind of like a technology program.

[00:04:21] It was like a first of its kind pilot technology program.

[00:04:24] And I was kind of like where I'd graduated in 2021.

[00:04:28] So into the thick of the pandemic, I thought, you know what?

[00:04:32] Technology is at the forefront of everything.

[00:04:34] Everyone's talking about tech.

[00:04:36] It's the only thing we can really like utilize right now.

[00:04:39] So I thought to myself, why not do something different if law is kind of like a sinking passion kind of thing?

[00:04:46] So I did that, got myself onto there.

[00:04:49] And it was one of those things where it's like it's a law firm.

[00:04:52] So it's where I'm comfortable.

[00:04:53] It's what I'm used to doing.

[00:04:55] Right.

[00:04:55] And then it's technology.

[00:04:56] So it's something new.

[00:04:58] So it's kind of blending those two worlds together, which is quite a unique opportunity that I didn't ever think I'd ever get kind of thing.

[00:05:05] So it was like if this is presenting itself, I'd be stupid not to take it.

[00:05:09] So I went, I applied, got the role.

[00:05:12] And then I did that for about a year and a half.

[00:05:15] So during that, I was doing things like shadowing the desktop engineering team, the cybersecurity team.

[00:05:22] I was working with the unified collaborations team and doing different bits of telephony and things like pixie boots and all of that sort of really technical, technical, geeky IT stuff.

[00:05:33] And I kind of thought to myself halfway through, this is really cool to learn.

[00:05:38] But again, am I in sort of like way above my head?

[00:05:42] So I was finding that when speaking to some of the guys who are working in there, they'd probably been in IT for like years and years.

[00:05:51] So I'm talking like 30 years plus kind of thing.

[00:05:54] And they'd kind of grown up taking apart the laptops and putting them back together.

[00:05:58] So it was almost like in that specific environment, there wasn't quite anywhere that they could place me because it was I was too experienced to be like an apprentice.

[00:06:10] But I wasn't experienced enough to quite sit with these guys who had been on the stuff for 30 years and anything else in the middle had kind of already been outsourced.

[00:06:20] So I took it upon myself to actually go to the Black Tech Fest last year, which is where I then gained the role that I'm currently sat in now.

[00:06:28] Wow.

[00:06:29] Yeah.

[00:06:29] When I was in the Black Tech Fest, I was kind of looking around, having a look at different things.

[00:06:34] I'd had an interest in cybersecurity.

[00:06:35] So that was really like my main focus and what I wanted to do.

[00:06:40] But I realized that service now was like in the corner of my eye.

[00:06:43] And I remembered that we had actually used their software whilst I was working in my graduate scheme.

[00:06:49] So I kind of went over.

[00:06:51] I spoke to the recruiter and it was just like literally one conversation can change your life because she was literally like your blend of soft skills and technical knowledge sounds perfect for a role we have called a solutions consultant.

[00:07:05] And at that time, I was like, what is that?

[00:07:08] Never heard of that.

[00:07:09] Have no idea what that is kind of thing.

[00:07:10] But she kind of explained the role and it did make sense.

[00:07:13] So it's kind of like being that pre-sales gap, explaining stakeholders, the technical knowledge of what you're doing and sort of, again, like I said, bridging that gap between technical and non-technical folk.

[00:07:25] And again, the skill set that I had was perfect for that, something that I didn't even know myself.

[00:07:30] So, yeah, I went through the ServiceNow Academy, which was five months, ramped up, got my ITIL certification, my ServiceNow Administrator certification.

[00:07:40] And then now I'm fully fledged in the field.

[00:07:43] Amazing.

[00:07:43] And I love the way you've told your story, you know, going from really interesting opportunity to work at a law firm in tech, which is you studied law and you're working at a law firm, but not doing law.

[00:08:00] But super interesting and very unique in the way that you went from studying law and then going to tech, which is something that a lot of people are trying to do.

[00:08:12] There's a lot of people moving from other industries into the tech industry.

[00:08:17] And it's really interesting, their reasons for doing that.

[00:08:21] So I wanted to ask you what your reason was for going into tech and deciding that, you know, I'm going to forego and leave this law thing that I studied and wanted to do all this time.

[00:08:34] And tech might be a better thing for me to go for.

[00:08:38] What are your reasons for doing that?

[00:08:41] So I think my big initial reason was the fact that, like I said previously, I was falling out of love with the practice of law.

[00:08:49] And it was one of those things where I sat there and I was like, I don't think I could see myself doing this for 30 plus years, for example.

[00:08:56] So I thought, what else could I possibly do to, I guess, pick up where I left off and not, I guess, waste all of this time that I put into doing law and all this time that I've done into studying and things.

[00:09:10] So having a look around, like I said, just graduating into the pandemic, technology was quite literally everywhere.

[00:09:17] And it was also one of those things which was kind of like, there are a lot of sort of schemes open as well.

[00:09:23] So there was like incentives like girls in tech or like black girls in tech and specific things that were really like attractive.

[00:09:29] And they also really sort of shaped my idea of maybe, maybe I can do that.

[00:09:35] Maybe this isn't just something for the boys. Right.

[00:09:37] I can probably have a try and do that.

[00:09:40] And I did try a few coding boot camps and stuff.

[00:09:44] Hated those. Did not want to learn coding at all.

[00:09:47] But I guess it was more of like a trial and error thing to see.

[00:09:50] Yes, I do want to be in technology, but where it's so vast, where do I want to end up in technology?

[00:09:57] So I think that really helped to mold it, the pandemic.

[00:10:01] So, yeah.

[00:10:02] Makes so much sense.

[00:10:04] One thing that really stands out about your journey is getting that opportunity to move into, you know, your role at ServiceNow through just attending an event and speaking to people.

[00:10:20] A lot of the times we talk about networking so much in this industry or in all industries, to be fair, you know, network, go to events, speak to people.

[00:10:29] But people often don't see how that can translate into opportunities.

[00:10:36] This is an incredible example of that.

[00:10:39] I've been to Black Tech Fest.

[00:10:40] I went this year, went last year.

[00:10:43] And there are literally recruiters standing there before you trying to talk to people, trying to find people who could be fits for certain roles.

[00:10:53] And of course, this is a podcast that helps people to get that insight and to get an understanding of how they can get into certain roles and get into the tech industry.

[00:11:06] Attending events like these, as you can see from an incredible example, is an incredible way to find opportunities, to open yourself up to people in that space.

[00:11:17] Right. So that is a really interesting part of your journey that I found.

[00:11:23] And is that like a thing that you do often?

[00:11:27] Do you go to loads of events or is this kind of a one off?

[00:11:31] So I'd say initially I didn't actually go to a lot of events.

[00:11:36] However, after going to.

[00:11:39] So I think the very first event I went to to do with technology and things like that was the Women of the Silicone Roundtable.

[00:11:45] And then kind of going to that, it did open my eyes to exactly what you said.

[00:11:49] There are quite literally recruiters on booths ready for candidates just like yourselves.

[00:11:56] So it almost spoke to me in that.

[00:11:59] Why don't I carry on going to these things and having a look around and just seeing what's out there?

[00:12:05] And then I guess on top of that, and it was something that I mentioned on the panel as well, really go in there open minded as well.

[00:12:12] Because like I said, I went to the Black Tech Fest a year ago and I was like, I want to do cyber security.

[00:12:18] So I was like really targeting cyber security schemes and really asking.

[00:12:22] But it was just an off moment where I was like, oh, I know service now.

[00:12:26] It's not what I'm targeting. I just know the brand. Right.

[00:12:29] And just being open to having that conversation with a recruiter.

[00:12:32] You never know what your skill set could bring.

[00:12:35] Like I said, they had the perfect role for me and I'd never even heard of it kind of thing.

[00:12:40] Just off being open minded.

[00:12:43] So as much as you can like do your research, know who's coming, you want to target these sorts of booths.

[00:12:47] Always, I guess, reserve some time to just have a wonder and just just see who you can meet and see what comes of different conversations.

[00:12:55] So, for example, when I was back at the Tech Fest, I was actually on our booth.

[00:13:03] The booth opposite was a lady I spoke to last year and she was really happy to see that I'd come back and I was on the booth.

[00:13:09] So, again, doing that full circle and she was also a recruiter.

[00:13:13] So my younger brother was there and I was able to connect the two of them.

[00:13:17] But, again, just on a whim of speaking to her randomly, she's now able to help my younger brother sort of navigate his way into something as well.

[00:13:25] So, yeah, I'd say really be open minded and just just go and have fun.

[00:13:30] Some incredible advice.

[00:13:32] One thing I wanted to touch on was ServiceNow and what exactly it is.

[00:13:38] Some people who haven't worked in tech might be a little bit confused on what is this ServiceNow we're speaking about?

[00:13:45] Of course, I've used it quite a bit in my roles and it's very widely used in loads of companies, loads of large enterprises.

[00:13:56] But I think you'd be the perfect person to give a breakdown on what exactly ServiceNow is.

[00:14:04] OK, so essentially ServiceNow and we call ourselves the platform of platforms.

[00:14:09] So we use a platform and it's typically used to automate loads of different manual tasks.

[00:14:15] So it provides automated, intuitive and usually unified experiences across different organizations.

[00:14:23] So it enables that end to end digital transformation that loads of customers and loads of clients are looking for.

[00:14:30] So, for example, we have loads of different workflows, loads of different digital workflows.

[00:14:35] So like we've got creator, technology, different industries such as financial, enterprise, health care.

[00:14:42] And we've also got specific creator workflows as well, which sometimes enables you to like build your own application within the application, which is quite cool.

[00:14:51] And I guess the tools are kind of used to set up systems, define, manage and structure different IT services for different companies as well.

[00:15:02] So I guess at a very simple level, think of it as a tool that allows you to raise and track tickets as well as process and catalog regular IT service requests.

[00:15:11] But you can do that within customer service.

[00:15:13] You can do that within HR.

[00:15:15] You can do that within basic IT as well.

[00:15:19] So, yeah, that's pretty much ServiceNow in a nutshell.

[00:15:22] A great explanation.

[00:15:23] And I suppose the way you've, you know, just explained ServiceNow is something that is part of your role as a consultant.

[00:15:33] I'm breaking down, you know, what exactly is the technology that the company is going to be using, helping them to understand the technology, helping them to get sort of recommendations on what they need to use and that sort of thing.

[00:15:46] But I wanted to ask you, as a consultant in tech, what are those responsibilities of someone in your role or in a consultant's role in general?

[00:15:56] What are those responsibilities, you know, for people who are sort of looking at consultant roles and seeing if maybe this is something that I could do or get into or prefer in terms of, you know, when I get into tech or other industries as well.

[00:16:12] But what is sort of the, what are the key responsibilities of a consultant?

[00:16:17] I'd say the main and biggest responsibility of a consultant, as much as you need that kind of technical background aspect is to be their trusted advisor.

[00:16:27] So specifically in my role, I work very closely with my sales counterparts.

[00:16:33] So where they kind of do a lot of the selling and letting them know about licensing and things like that, I will kind of come in and have a look at their, if they're existing customers, for example, have a look at their estate, have a look at their enterprise, maybe see what they're utilizing currently.

[00:16:48] Let them know that they've, maybe they're paying for this and not using this.

[00:16:54] Just have a look and try and like get them to where they want to be, sort of like a customer first sort of advisory thing, because that's what we always call ourselves the trusted advisors of the sales team.

[00:17:05] So I guess you need quite a lot of that people skills or those soft skills as well as the technical knowledge, because as much as like we can say, we might be talking to an IT team one day or the change manager.

[00:17:17] But then again, we might be talking to the CEO who just wants to talk big strategy.

[00:17:22] So you kind of need like a blend of that knowledge all the way across the board.

[00:17:27] It's truly a role where you need that combination of technical understanding and communication skills and being able to explain, like we always say, technical concepts to non-technical people.

[00:17:43] Exactly.

[00:17:44] And technical concepts to technical people.

[00:17:47] So it's, it's, it's, it's, it's an interesting role.

[00:17:50] And it seems like there's a certain skillset that is required to work in this role that, that you have not only, you know, through working in that role, but also through, you know, your study of law and, and just yourself and what you've gone through in the law side of things that really translates well into tech.

[00:18:09] Yeah.

[00:18:11] Which is, which is, which is amazing.

[00:18:12] And another point that, that is kind of stressed and has been stressed in recent episodes is highlighting your transferable skills.

[00:18:22] There, there are loads of people, like I said, on this, in this audience that they want to transition, but they're like, I don't have any tech background or anything to do with tech.

[00:18:33] Um, but you do have something, you're transitioning from somewhere and there are transferable skills or things that do transfer well into the tech.

[00:18:43] You just have to find where it can, and you have to market that to, you know, hiring managers and employers.

[00:18:51] 100%.

[00:18:52] Yeah.

[00:18:53] So I wanted to move on to a really interesting question.

[00:18:57] And of course we, we talk about tech a lot, uh, on the podcast, um, online, lots of people glamorize working in tech.

[00:19:06] Lots of people say it's amazing.

[00:19:08] Just money.

[00:19:09] Just, just all this good stuff, right?

[00:19:12] High salaries.

[00:19:13] Um, you know, exciting work or all the above.

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[00:19:49] And I hope this is really helpful.

[00:19:51] Thank you guys for watching.

[00:19:52] I'll see you guys later.

[00:19:53] I wanted to ask you what one pro of working in tech is, but also one con of working in this industry is for you.

[00:20:03] I think my biggest pro is the, um, flexibility of it.

[00:20:08] And not just in, for example, working from home and having a lot of remote calls and things like that.

[00:20:14] I'd say in terms of really bringing your whole self to work.

[00:20:19] So there isn't really, for example, in like other more rigid industries like the legal sector or maybe like financial services, you've kind of got to be that corporate in a box person, which is absolutely fine if that's what suits you.

[00:20:33] But I guess for me, I'm much more of a free spirited person.

[00:20:36] So I kind of enjoy like being a bit more colorful, you know, like wearing all my bangles, having my nails done kind of thing.

[00:20:42] And there's kind of like no judgment from it.

[00:20:44] I guess we're all just techies in one big tech space, just being ourselves kind of thing.

[00:20:48] So I really enjoy that.

[00:20:50] And that would be my one pro.

[00:20:52] Um, I'd say a con might be that, um, technology is so vast so that there is, there's just so much to learn all of the time and your brain doesn't switch off.

[00:21:05] You're just constantly finding things and answering questions and constantly learning, which can also be seen as a positive.

[00:21:12] But I feel like sometimes it's good to have that switch off and like break from work, which sometimes you might not get working in technology, albeit depending in, um, these, uh, what's it called?

[00:21:25] The category that you might go into.

[00:21:26] But I find in my role, there's just a lot of learning, a lot of questions and it is constant.

[00:21:32] So I really, really relate to your con, especially like that, that, that is something that I experience in, in, in my roles.

[00:21:42] There's just so much to learn.

[00:21:45] And I've, I said this in like a, in like a real recently, if you're not someone who enjoys learning new things, doing online courses or certifications, um, and just picking up new skills and you're not willing to keep doing that, then it might not be the industry for you.

[00:22:09] Yeah.

[00:22:10] Um, it's, it's, it's definitely an industry that there's going to be more to learn tomorrow.

[00:22:16] You will probably have a part of your role that you've never heard of before.

[00:22:22] Like you have a piece of tech that you need to implement or tell someone about that you haven't heard of, that you don't know, that you don't understand.

[00:22:32] You know, they talk about how, especially like at the beginning of your career, the best engineers are the best Googlers or probably today the best chat GPTers.

[00:22:47] But like, this is a real thing in tech.

[00:22:50] There's a lot to learn.

[00:22:52] Um, and you know, there are of course roles that are super like repetitive maybe, and might have the same skills, but you can't afford to be really complacent in one area.

[00:23:04] Exactly.

[00:23:04] You need to keep learning those skills and growing.

[00:23:08] Because of the vast rate that technology grows as well.

[00:23:11] We have to keep up.

[00:23:12] That is, it's just that.

[00:23:13] It's like cat and mouse kind of thing.

[00:23:15] We're constantly chasing it.

[00:23:17] So, yeah.

[00:23:18] So true.

[00:23:19] Now, I want to talk about, I want to really talk to the audience with this next question and give them some key advice from your experience and your navigation of the tech industry.

[00:23:37] I wanted to ask you, Emma, how you would advise someone on transitioning to tech with no tech background.

[00:23:47] What would be those key tips that you would give to someone without a technology background?

[00:23:53] Maybe they have a background in some other industry, whether it's law, whether it's, um, what else?

[00:23:59] English, whether it's something else, um, and transitioning into this tech industry.

[00:24:06] Because honestly, this audience that we speak to, there are so many people that have this situation, transitioning.

[00:24:15] They're coming from somewhere else.

[00:24:17] So what would be the advice you'd give to these people?

[00:24:21] I think the first thing that I'd advise is don't be afraid.

[00:24:25] Literally just take the leap because that's, I guess, the first part of the problem is not believing in yourself because, oh, I don't have the experience.

[00:24:33] So I can't maybe do this or I don't really know this.

[00:24:36] So I can't.

[00:24:36] You can 100% you can.

[00:24:38] Because of exactly the point you made earlier of those transferable skills, they will get you so many places that you, again, wouldn't have thought of.

[00:24:47] So, for example, myself, when applying to this technology scheme, I didn't previously have any technology background behind me, but I was a bartender, right?

[00:24:56] I used my skills from bartending, from upselling, from telling people things, things like that, and bringing the confidence that I had from the bar to this.

[00:25:06] And they were impressed with me and I got the role kind of thing.

[00:25:09] It doesn't necessarily have to be something technical that you've done.

[00:25:12] Anything, any example that you've done that can relate and brings the skills that they want to see from that role will be sufficient.

[00:25:19] And, again, kind of like just being yourself as well, letting your personality shine will also be a massive thing.

[00:25:26] Another thing I'd say is that there are loads of different free courses out there and sort of free programs that you can do.

[00:25:33] So I know I mentioned specifically for girls, I guess because I am a girl, that we've got black girls in tech.

[00:25:41] You've also got Code First girls as well, which is a really good one.

[00:25:45] And I'm pretty sure there are loads of other different ones and free events and free things like the Black Tech Fest to go to.

[00:25:54] Also just utilising LinkedIn, reaching out to people and messaging them and seeing how did you do it?

[00:26:01] How did you do that? So say, for example, like the law students, anyone who's previously a law student,

[00:26:06] they can reach out to me and have a look at what I've done kind of thing and see how I can maybe help them navigate.

[00:26:11] Or there might be someone coming from healthcare and navigating it.

[00:26:13] So I think LinkedIn is a really powerful tool that people neglect to utilise as well.

[00:26:18] Even if you feel like you're annoying, annoy them anyway, is what I say.

[00:26:24] Some really great tips and some really practical tips that could really help the audience.

[00:26:31] Firstly, not being afraid, super important.

[00:26:35] Just start.

[00:26:37] Dive in.

[00:26:39] If you're excited about it, you need to just take those steps in making it happen.

[00:26:46] You know, lots of free resources online to do the learning, especially like getting started, figuring out,

[00:26:52] is this something I want to do?

[00:26:54] Yeah, there's free stuff that you can do on the side to figure that out.

[00:26:58] Right.

[00:26:58] And then go from there and then find like the whole thing about LinkedIn, reaching out to people, speaking to people is so important.

[00:27:06] I've spoken on the channel about how I got my first tech job through reaching out to people.

[00:27:13] Like the thing is, a lot of people didn't reply and that could be like, ah, he didn't reply.

[00:27:19] I'm not going to do this again.

[00:27:20] But like I sent it, I sent like the same message to like a hundred people and three or four replied.

[00:27:28] Some replied saying, I don't have anything.

[00:27:31] Like, I don't, I don't know.

[00:27:33] 90, 90% aired me.

[00:27:35] And then there was one person who was like, oh, I actually have something that you could interview for.

[00:27:40] And through that, I got my first tech job, which was incredible.

[00:27:46] So that is a real way of being super proactive, not just networking with recruiters or people that can give you a job,

[00:27:53] but reaching out to people in the positions that you'd want to be in and asking for advice.

[00:27:58] So super, super helpful stuff.

[00:28:01] I want to jump into my favorite part of the podcast.

[00:28:06] And this is the part where I ask our guests to tell us a memorable career story, an interesting career story.

[00:28:16] And it could be interesting in a really good way or a really bad way.

[00:28:20] From this question, we've had some incredible stories.

[00:28:24] Some that were really, really peak, I won't lie.

[00:28:29] But others that were, you know, great and really encouraging and really honest and amazing.

[00:28:37] Some have just been outright weird.

[00:28:42] But whatever you'd want to share with the audience in terms of one of your memorable career stories.

[00:28:50] I have a few.

[00:28:53] I think the one I'm going to go with is when I was working previously, I was in a team.

[00:29:05] I had two supposed mentors.

[00:29:08] They were supposed to be my mentors.

[00:29:09] It was kind of like, OK, we're the only women in this sort of, I guess, team.

[00:29:14] So we're going to give you us because it makes sense.

[00:29:17] We're all going to be like this one big happy women team.

[00:29:22] And this was actually on, I don't know whether I can say or not, but I guess people devise where it's from anyway.

[00:29:31] So I was working and I'd actually logged on to a call.

[00:29:35] And they were speaking so negatively about me and some of my colleagues that it was insane.

[00:29:44] Like I was kind of so baffled and so confused that I didn't really understand what was going on.

[00:29:51] I didn't really understand what I'd done wrong.

[00:29:53] As I was so early on in my career, it was one of those things that was so, what's the word?

[00:29:59] It really took a hit to my confidence and what I could do and my capabilities, especially again as a career switcher.

[00:30:07] It was almost like, OK, maybe this isn't where I should be.

[00:30:10] Maybe this isn't what I should be doing kind of thing.

[00:30:15] So off the back of that, we'd gone into a room with HR and everything else.

[00:30:21] And we'd kind of come to the conclusion that the lady who was, I guess, the ringleader should apologise.

[00:30:27] And to that, she turned to me and she said, but would you not take that as constructive criticism?

[00:30:34] And every, the room fell silent and the meeting kind of ended within five minutes.

[00:30:38] And that was like it, because it was one of those things where it was like, you can lead the horse to the water, but you can't kind of make it drink.

[00:30:45] And I'd say I feel as though people early in career might come up against challenges like that a lot in where they feel like their career or maybe their confidence has really been knocked by older people that are supposed to be guiding them to where they should be.

[00:31:02] And that's just not the case.

[00:31:04] And it really did take a hit.

[00:31:06] However, from that, I guess it made me build a lot of resilience to where I work, what I'm doing with myself.

[00:31:14] And also it really did instill in me that I need to believe in myself.

[00:31:18] I shouldn't take what everyone says and use that as my value to what I can and cannot do.

[00:31:24] As long as I know in myself that I'm doing a good job, then it doesn't matter what everybody else is saying.

[00:31:30] Unless my manager's like pulled me to the side and put me on a personal improvement plan or something crazy like that.

[00:31:36] But if that hasn't happened, then it shouldn't matter what everyone else is saying, because it's kind of like your self-worth is only as good as you think it is kind of thing.

[00:31:44] And I think that's really what I took from that.

[00:31:47] And that is definitely a memorable point in my career, because I'd say before that I was kind of in work quite naively and not really expecting anything to happen.

[00:31:59] But it definitely shaped how I go about things and shaped my confidence and probably pushed me to where I am today kind of thing.

[00:32:07] So, yeah.

[00:32:08] Amma, this was a really incredible and vulnerable story.

[00:32:13] And I really appreciate you sharing that with us.

[00:32:17] Truth is, like, the culture of a company doesn't always represent each person that is within the company.

[00:32:28] And there's certainly people who, people are people.

[00:32:34] People have grown up in different environments, gone through different things.

[00:32:38] Some people are rude.

[00:32:39] Some people are nice.

[00:32:40] Some people are great.

[00:32:41] Some people are not.

[00:32:42] And whether you're in tech or in any other industry, you're going to encounter people.

[00:32:49] You're probably going to encounter workplace issues or workplace gossip or whatever the case is.

[00:32:56] And that might be really, really negative.

[00:33:00] That might not be negative.

[00:33:02] But regardless, you have to have the courage to be able to act against it.

[00:33:10] I think one thing that stands out about that story is, firstly, you being able to kind of have that conversation with that person.

[00:33:22] You know, a lot of people would really just brush that over.

[00:33:25] Like, I am a, I'm a bit of a conflict avoidant in real life and I'm working on that.

[00:33:30] But, like, to be able to kind of stand up to that and actually move forward with that, with HR and with other people, getting other people involved is actually really important.

[00:33:43] Because you're going to have to, you're going to have to work with this person.

[00:33:46] Like, how can you do that with all this stuff in the way?

[00:33:49] And just you sharing about how, what this has taught you is super important for those watching.

[00:33:57] Not just career-wise.

[00:33:59] Not just working in tech-wise.

[00:34:01] But a real life lesson.

[00:34:04] So I really appreciate you sharing that story.

[00:34:06] And it's really an incredible story for us to have on this episode.

[00:34:10] So thank you so much.

[00:34:11] No worries.

[00:34:13] Now, finally, to end off the podcast, I want to just ask you to share where the audience can reach you.

[00:34:22] Or anything else you'd like to shout out and plug on the podcast.

[00:34:27] I think mainly my LinkedIn.

[00:34:29] So that's Amma Anan.

[00:34:31] So surname A-N-N-A-N.

[00:34:34] And, yeah, ping me, reach out to me, connect with me, ask me anything you want to.

[00:34:38] I'm really like an open book.

[00:34:41] I'm very transparent and very happy to help.

[00:34:43] Amazing.

[00:34:44] And Amma's LinkedIn will be linked in the description of this video.

[00:34:50] So if you want to reach out, if you want to connect with her, follow her, the link is below.

[00:34:57] So, yeah, go click that.

[00:34:58] Amma, this has been an amazing episode.

[00:35:01] Truly amazing.

[00:35:01] Not just saying that.

[00:35:03] And thank you so much again for being on the Tech Certified podcast.

[00:35:07] For the audience, we'll be back every week.

[00:35:11] So stay tuned.